Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost

....my vote in the GE.

For the last 7 years, democrats, republicans, independents, and everyone else in between has been forced to respond to a politics of fear in America. The Bush Administration and many of its most ardent supporters have used fear (the fear of others, the fear of terrorism, the fear of the ill-understood) to threaten us. GW Bush has applied this politics to every debate on Capitol Hill. XXXXX will make us safer. XXXXX will make us weaker. XXXXXX and the terrorists win.

Now Hillary Clinton - who shocked democrats (and others) - with her 3 am call, has once again found it necessary to lower the dialogue of American politics. Hillary is playing with fire. She is engaging in 'guilt by association' tactics that should make all of us cringe at our core. She is using 9-11 and Osama bin Laden as a way of drumming up votes. Many have noted her reference to Hamas in the debate and her newly-found desire to exploit 9-11...not just for her own purpose, but to hurt a fellow democrat.

For those of you who have forgotten...this is exactly why we fought in 2006 to win back Congress.  

She has not only played on the politics of fear. She has played the 'terror card'.

Mark Halperin has the story:
http://thepage.time.com/2008/04/21/clint on-up-with-new-tv-ad/

After 2004, I thought we were tired of this kind of politics. We used to think this was how Republicans campaigned. Now this is how Hillary is campaigning. She has sunk to a new low that I think will play into the hands of Republicans in the Fall. Moreover, I think she insults America (and our superdelegates) with this ad.

This is not about solutions to gas prices or foreclosures. This is not about a change in Washington. This is about her. This is about 'doing antyhing, saying anything'.

She will win PA...but if she manages to secure the nomination, she is in for a long, tough road to win back over democrats (and others) who are tired of being told that they should be afraid.

And to pile on, exponentially, the disingenuous rhetoric that her campaign has promoted over the last month or so...I leave you with one of the more memorable political quotes of the late 20th century:

"Now, one of Clinton's laws of politics is this. If one candidate is trying to scare you and the other one is try get you to think, if one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope."



Display:


Is anyone else outraged by this? (2.00 / 4)

What is she thinking?


We don't need a thinker. We need a doer: someone who'll act without considering the consequences. (H.J. Simpson)
by Newcomer on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 11:52:54 AM EST

Re: Is anyone else outraged by this? (2.00 / 1)

It's disgusting.


by parahammer on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 11:55:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is anyone else outraged by this? (2.00 / 3)

OBL is featured in this add for all of... 1 second. Terrorism isn't even explicitly mentioned nor is 9/11 directly invoked.  

Is using the economy and gas prices fear-mongering now as well?  I had the impression that Obama was using those issues as well.

If this ad is disgusting to you I truly am worried about the effects that McCain's GE campaign will have on your health. The ad was subtle by any standard.


by Apostle on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:05:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Agreed. Every word in this ad (none / 0)

is true.  So what's the problem?  The presidency is a big job with high stakes and Democrats need to run the most experienced candidate to win in November.  Barack just isn't there yet.  Hillary is.

***A


by adrienne4dean on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:40:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is anyone else outraged by this? (2.00 / 1)


 I`ts also true.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is anyone else outraged by this? (2.00 / 1)

honestly? no.

her supporters will defend it tooth and nail.

and honestly are you REALLY that surprised at this ad? I didn't even blink an eye, I suspect many other Obama supporters weren't surprised either.

its all about the undecideds and will they care or not. we find out tomorrow.


Obama said, as Bill beamed. "Thank you, President Clinton."
by TruthMatters on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 11:56:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is anyone else outraged by this? (2.00 / 1)

No, not surprised by the ad.  If it's worth anything, it gives an opening to the Obama campaign's perfect retort, invoking Bill Clinton's  "vote your hopes, not your fears" meme.  
A nice "in your face" moment.  We should see more of that one in the weeks ahead.
by haystax calhoun on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:34:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is anyone else outraged by this? (2.00 / 5)

Nope.

There is nothing wrong with this ad.  In fact, I quite like it.  FINALLY, someone puts some words and images to the question that needs to be asked.  

Brava!


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:06:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Redstate LOVES the ad, too! (2.00 / 1)

Wow, Senator Clinton. Thanks.
All we have to do is cut off the last three seconds of this...
By Moe Lane

...replace it with a similar approval from Senator McCain, and we've got a hypothetical McCain campaign ad for the national election



Hillary Clinton, doing the Republican's dirty work so that they don't have to.
by edmandspath on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:18:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Redstate LOVES the ad, too! (none / 0)

Please, point us to some conservative blogs that are celebrating Obama's ads. Should be easy for you, right?

Take your time, we are a patient lot.


by edmandspath on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:53:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am surprised that more Americans are not (2.00 / 2)

outraged by the Bush administration's cozy relationship with the oil companies, the Saudi government, and the Bin Laden family.

That is probably the biggest reason that the US is not seriously researching alternatives. Government officials still hold stock in oil companies, held in 'blind trusts' - supposedly, but still there.

Despite what all the Obama folk say, I think he is far more of a Washington insider, a 'player', so to speak, than Hillary Clinton is.

Why else would Obama craft the healthcare plan he has, that trades protection for 20% of Americans, basically those with pre-existing conditions, for affordability, and retains the individual/small group risk/pricing model, meaning that
people continue to be left in the lurch, ALONE, when they need help the most
, in the interest only of improving healthcare STATISTICS? Why else would he appoint Jim Cooper as his healthcare czar? (The man who derailed national universal healthcare in 1994)

Hillary's health care plan is designed to WORK and to GIVE PEOPLE REAL PEACE OF MIND.
In my opinion, Obama's plan is less than half a plan, its designed to just win this election and to DEFLECT REAL CHANGE.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Without a REAL committment to it, we WON'T win in November.
by architek on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:58:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is anyone else outraged by this? (none / 0)

Well that was a fast invocation of Godwin's law.  Time to move on!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_la w


by quixote27 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is anyone else outraged by this? (none / 0)

After withstanding sniper fire and voting so that Bush could start the Iraq war, Hillary Clinton emerges as strong on national security.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a positive ad (2.00 / 2)

The most positive "negative ad" ad I've ever seen.

And it's ALL ABOUT SOLUTIONS: foreclosures, gas prices, war.

Dang, I'm donating just a little more $$.

Great closer, Hillary!


by catfish1 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a positive ad (none / 0)

Better make it a big donation. Clintons BROKE and in DEBT. What S.D. would support a candidate who has no money?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:17:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Funny how (2.00 / 1)

Obama still can't wipe her out?


by catfish1 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Forget votes, let's just do money (2.00 / 1)

primaries. That's recipe for a just Democracy, don't you think?


by catfish1 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:18:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Forget votes, let's just do money (none / 0)

No, let's just vote for the candidate that knows how to manage their money better.


by haystax calhoun on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Being outspend but still winning? (2.00 / 1)

OK you got it.


by catfish1 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Being outspend but still winning? (none / 0)

Uhhh, Clinton is winning now?  


by haystax calhoun on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:49:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

Eh, I think it's alright.  I'm wondering why I'm expecting to see "an army of one" logo at the end though.


by Mostly on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 11:56:42 AM EST

I am not outraged at all (2.00 / 7)

Is there any part of that ad that is not true?

Did she accuse an entire class of people as being "typical", "bitter", "clinging"?

Doesn't it show that even though she is a woman and "we just know" women can't think strategically or be strong in times of adversity, that SHE GETS IT. She is ready to be the leader we need. She is not afraid to fight for that which she believes in.

I honestly, truly have not seen that depth of character in her opponent.

It's painful, but it's the truth. Deal with it.


by pan230oh on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 11:58:26 AM EST

Re: I am not outraged at all (2.00 / 0)

Stupid wedge-issues and single-issue voters. It's all a myth. Everyone is happy. The Rust Belt is the Bunnies and Rainbow Belt.  


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:01:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wedge issues? (1.83 / 6)

was it a wedge for Obama to push a false meme about Hillary Clinton's campaign 'race baiting'?
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (1.75 / 4)

HRC and her surrogates have made numerous dog whistle statements to make people afraid of Obama because of his race and have played upon historic hatreds.  It is not a false meme.  She did it.  She'll still get my vote; but she's lost my respect.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:14:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (1.00 / 1)

Thanks for the TR Sluggo.  This sort of "dialog" from HRC folks is one of the things that make me proud to support Obama.  Hit me again, asshole.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (1.00 / 0)

pssst.....Randomly barking out Farrahkan's name, and implying that Obama had given him a "stamp of approval", while people are sending out flyers and emails to elderly Jewish Democrats that Obama is an anti-Semite (and I'll concede your point in advance: There's no more evidence of coordination between that campaign and Clinton '08 than there was between Karl Rove and the Swiftboaters), is race-baiting. Pretty much a textbook example.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:30:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (none / 0)

exactly.


We don't need a thinker. We need a doer: someone who'll act without considering the consequences. (H.J. Simpson)
by Newcomer on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 0)

Many of us black folks agree that her campaign was. What of it?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 0)

I saw it happening at the time - it's not a false meme.  I believe the last straw for me was Andrew Cuomo's shuck-and-jive.

I said "goddamnit, if someone doesn't call them on this soon...."


by Mostly on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 0)

and Donna's fairytale twisting?  And the Bradly Effect after NH? And JJ's statements that Hillary didn't cry for Katrina?  


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (none / 0)

Donna?

Obama created the Bradley Effect?

JJjr was saying she was a fraud. As she has admitted to lying I'm not sure that is in doubt.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:46:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 1)

Donna Brazille, who twisted BC's fairytale comment into race.

Obama's campaign ran with the Bradley effect after NH - and the MSM ran with that - stating NE'ers are closet racists.

JJ was not doing that at all - he was whipping out a race card.  Hillary didn't "cry" and he went on attack mode.


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (none / 0)

Hillary 'cried' over how tough it is to campaign but not over true tragedy. That's not calling her a fraud?

Donna Brazille is black. Are all us black people working for Obama or something?

Obama's campaign ran with the Bradley Effect? You have a quote?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:33:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 1)

no, she was asked a question by a voter on how she does it.  And I believe that Hillary was truly touched by that comment.  And she didn't cry.  And no, there is nothing there that is a "fraud".  JJ was race baiting.  pure & simple

yes, thank you for pointing out DB is black.  /snark.  She was the one who made the BC fairytale comment into a racist one and she is for Obama.

bradley effect - google Eugene Robinson, who is in the tank for Obama - he was the a-hole who blurted it out.  And then google obama bradley effect new hampshire  and tell me that the media didn't run on it.

Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson, a cheerleading advocate for Obama, went on television to suggest the Bradley Effect explained the New Hampshire outcome, then backed off--only then to write a column, "Echoes of Tom Bradley," in which he claimed he could not be sure but that, nevertheless, "embarrassed pollsters and pundits had better be vigilant for signs that the Bradley effect, unseen in recent years, has crept back."

http://hnn.us/roundup/comments/47797.htm l


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 1)

So what you're telling me is that you don't have a quote from Obama or any members of the Obama campaign about the Bradley Effect, Donna Brazille isn't part of his campaign, and that we disagree about JJjr's intent.

You have failed woefully.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 0)

they are his surrogates - and if you don't think Donna isn't part of his campaign, I don't know what to tell ya.

I haven't failed woefully - unlike you, I have to write a research paper on labor unions :)

and someone did do a good diary here on the whole "race baiting" issues - and Obama lost in their view

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/20/1141 36/398


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:01:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 0)

oh, even HUFFPO, fer crying out loud, wrote about this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12 /read-obama-campaign-memo-_n_81220.html


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (none / 0)

Pointing out racism does not equal race baiting. MLK was right.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:06:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 1)

You have proof she is part of his campaign? I hope you do.

Yeah, as a black man, I don't really care what white folks tell me is racist or not.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:06:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (2.00 / 0)

well, so much for an open discussion on race, race-baiting and racism

that type of argument just shuts it down, you realize that?  


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:16:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (none / 0)

Telling black people that pointing out racism is race-baiting is what shuts conversation down.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:23:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not questioning (2.00 / 0)

what you are told always prevents the truth from coming out- even if it is Obama doing the telling... I know, I know, we all want him to be absolutely right all of the time.
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:30:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not questioning (none / 0)

Obama didn't tell me a thing. I knew they were going racist as soon as I heard the drug-dealing comment.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Still can't answer the question (none / 0)

can you?
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:52:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Still can't answer the question (none / 0)

What question? Who benefits? I already did.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (none / 0)

RLM, I uprated you because even though we disagree on this one, there was nothing trollish about your comments.


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:49:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wedge issues? (none / 0)

Grazie.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:54:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Perception is an odd thing (none / 0)

For me, when I saw the memo(s) coming out of Obama's South Carolina campaign- that specifically tied together things like Clinton's MLK statement and a bunch of stupid remarks by people sort of associated with the Clinton campaign- it made me sick.
I get politics, I understand why Obama did it, what I don't understand is how so many politically savy people don't get who it was really coming from...

Tell me this, who did Clinton being painted as a race baiter help- Clinton or Obama?
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Perception is an odd thing (none / 0)

For me it was the actual race baiting not the pointing out of the race baiting. But I'm black.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:50:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are so entitled to your opinion (none / 0)

Me, I would like an apology from Obama for throwing gays under a bus by using McClurkin to bait conservative, southern church goers- and letting him bash lgbt and then never - NEVER apologizing for it.

However, that isn't a point on which I would base my vote- because I don't think he is anti-lgbt, regardless of this action.

Now, care to answer my question: who benefited from Clinton being labeled a race baiter- Clinton or Obama?
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:11:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are so entitled to your opinion (none / 0)

So ask him for an apology.

She is a race baiter so the label is the truth. Who benefits from the truth? We do. Obama certainly doesn't benefit from focus on his skin color.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are so entitled to your opinion (none / 0)

Hillary HAD nothing to gain by being a "race baiter".

that label that you decry as "truth" is not truthful at all.  Of course, I am sure you will bring up the MLK was right comment again & other things you stated that just shuts down the debate.

but believe what you will.  Many people have looked at this and a lot of the comments were twisted and made-up - and not from Hillary's camp.


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:18:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are so entitled to your opinion (none / 0)

She had everything to gain in her mind. Though she's a generation late. If she doesn't get called on it the drug-dealing, shucking and jiving, smooth talker who isn't up for hard work meme gets into the ether and he's marginalized as the "black" candidate ala Jesse Jackson (Hi Bill!). If she does get called on it, she feigns outrage, and he's marginalized as the "overly sensitive black candidate". But that doesn't work with young people and young people are out in force.

Obama's camp didn't make anything up. I read each and every comment as did many black bloggers on the net and we made up our own minds about this. The media miscovered the fairytale comment and the MLK comment (which MLK already disagreed with when he said LBJ didn't do much of anything and what he did he was forced to do) but they missed some of the more troubling comments.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:59:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh I have (none / 0)

for that and not letting Gavin Newsom get into photos and for dissing LGBT papers/media in just the right states.
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:21:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh I have (none / 0)

Did you see Hillary Clinton talking about Obama's "bitter" comments? The way she had that little sneer in her voice when she said that the appearance was in "San Francisco". Did you notice how all her surrogates keep going out of their way to mention that it was in "San Francisco". Kind of like how her pals at FoxNews refer to Nancy Pelosi as a "San Francisco Democrat"?

What do you think the Clinton camp is trying to do with that?


by BlueinColorado on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:27:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Its stupid (none / 0)

but she isn't intimating that its about gays- San Fransisco is not just a gay city you know.
She is playing the elitism- the fundraiser could have been in LA or NYC and she would be saying the same thing- different city. Read into stuff much?
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:32:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its stupid (none / 0)

Read into stuff much?

Heh. Quoth the poster who wants to make believe that Donnie McClurkin is a household name.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:34:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And btw (none / 0)

you still haven't answered the question- who benefited from Clinton being labeled as a 'race baiter'?
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:22:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And btw (none / 0)

I did already.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 06:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are so entitled to your opinion (none / 0)

ah yes, the towering figure of Donnie McLurkin, a political icon who wields enormous influence, whose stance on LGBT issues is known far and wide throughout the land. A household name who has been at Obama's side from day to day through this whole campaign...

What? What's that you say? He's a fairly obscure singer who made one appearance six months ago? He was one of a group of gospel singers at a fund-raising concert? And nobody knew or cared about his stance on any political issue until someone dug up some comments he made about  being "cured" as a gay man?

Oh, that's very different, isn't it?


by BlueinColorado on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:03:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you (none / 0)

for minimalizing my lgbt concerns- seems to be the tact of every Obama supporter anymore, especially when I call Obama/his supporters on this.
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:20:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you (none / 0)

You don't have any LGBT concerns about Obama, you said so yourself.

because I don't think he is anti-lgbt,

I was making fun of your McClurkin concerns. That's what you brought up.

That's the trouble with the kind of phony outrage you people gin up to justify your hostility toward Obama. You resent him for being a better candidate than your candidate, you want to rationalize your resentment, so you make up a bunch of stuff so you can tell yourself his victory is somehow illegitimate, and apparently it's getting harder to keep track of.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:25:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am so done with you (none / 0)

you are making me ill. Twist and spin, doesn't matter, as long as it benefits Obama. Fuck right and wrong.
So you must think Obama sporting McClurkin was a good thing? Disgusting.
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:27:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so done with you (none / 0)

I don't think Obama had ever heard of Donnie McClurkin before this appearance. I know I hadn't. I doubt you did. You're grasping at a very thin straw to justify your anger. To suggest that he went out of his way to use this obscure and tragic figure to appeal to anti-gay voters is just brain-dead stupid. Sorry, there it is. "Right and wrong" doesn't even begin to enter into it. Until the desperate and divisive demagoguery of Clinton supporters comes into play.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:31:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Umm (none / 0)

Donnie McClurkin is a very big 'ex-gay' figure. He was also not the only one with anti-gay political views on that gospel tour. McClurkin also happens to be one of the most popular gospel signers in the US. Please don't tell me how informed or uniformed I am about lgbt issues. Peace out.
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Umm (none / 0)

A gay South Carolina pastor, Andy Sidden, gave the prayer that opened the event, a compromise the Obama campaign put together after McClurkin's appearance was attacked by gay rights activists. Sidden's prayer noted the importance of people of all races, backgrounds and sexual orientations coming together.

I guess Obama's not very good at the dog whistle stuff.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 02:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah (none / 0)

and Clinton fired or asked to resign every single person that supposedly 'race-baited' save her husband- she told him to stfu. What's your point?
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:03:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah (none / 0)

If Obama had fiendishly reached out to whatshisname in an evil, calculated appeal to bigotry, why did he bring in a gay pastor to speak at the same event? Wouldn't that have cost him the bigot vote? And didn't he win South Carolina? Pretty fucking handily?

as for HRC getting rid of race-baiters....

[O]ver the past two months, the actions and words of Hillary Clinton have gone from being merely disappointing to downright disgusting. I guess the debate last week was the final straw. I've watched Senator Clinton and her husband play this game of appealing to the worst side of white people, but last Wednesday, when she hurled the name "Farrakhan" out of nowhere, well that's when the silly season came to an early end for me. She said the "F" word to scare white people, pure and simple. Of course, Obama has no connection to Farrakhan.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/messag e/index.php?id=225

....are you saying she's going to resign from her own campaign? Phew.... 'bout time someone explained the math to her.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You completely missed my point (none / 0)

with my initial comment- but thank you for answering. It was not Clinton who benefited form Clinton being labeled a 'race baiter', but it was rather Obama. Well no shit, turns out the vast majority of voters in a Democratic primary aren't racist. Who the hell knew!? Well, its pretty obvious who knew and drove the point home. Its called politics- some would say, more of the same.
by linc on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 03:17:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I heard that Chelsea was jogging (none / 0)

around the WTC when it was hit and had to dodge into a store to avoid being hit by debris. I'm sure 9/11 9/11 9/11 is very personal for Clinton.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:01:02 PM EST

Re: I heard that Chelsea was jogging (2.00 / 0)

Nope . . . she was in Manhattan, but not in dodging distance of any debris. It may be personal, but emotionally . . . not physically.


by SurfCityDEM4Life on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:03:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I heard that Chelsea was jogging (2.00 / 0)

Ah well. Would have been a good story.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:28:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I heard that Chelsea was jogging (2.00 / 1)

Here's the true story, which Dick Morris falsely tried to portray as another tall tale told by Hillary:

"When the World Trade Center collapsed on Sept. 11, I was 12 blocks away, (and) nothing has been the same since," Clinton wrote in the December/January issue of Talk magazine, on sale Friday in New York.

    [...]

Clinton had been staying with her high school friend Nicole Davison in her apartment near Union Square for a few days in September before she went to England to study at Oxford. After they had coffee together, Davison went to work and Clinton returned to the apartment.

Davison called Clinton with the news of the first plane that crashed into the World Trade Center. Clinton turned on the television and watched the second plane crash into the second WTC tower, and tried to reach her mother in Washington, but after speaking to her assistant, the phone line went dead.

    [...]

Panicked, Chelsea Clinton left the apartment and found herself running toward downtown "in the direction everyone else was coming from," in search of a public telephone. She was desperate to call her mother and her father, who was on a speaking tour in Australia.

Chelsea Clinton was downtown in line at a pay phone when she heard the rumble of the second tower collapsing. Later she found Davison and another friend, and the three spent the day walking uptown. Chelsea Clinton wrote that she had an "irrational medley of thoughts" running through her head.

http://mediamatters.org/items/2008032700 08


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:36:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I heard that Chelsea was jogging (none / 0)

Was that her cell phone line that went dead?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:53:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 3)

your vote?  Just now?  

From old posts, as well as this one, I'd say it's pretty obvious she lost your vote a long time ago...if she ever had it.


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:01:22 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (1.00 / 1)

Does that make it any less suprising?

Are you proud of her campain?  Do you think it represents our party's values as a whole?

Could you really imagine 6 months ago a DEMOCRAT creating fear propaganda commercials, the same propaganda that Bush/Cheney/Rove have been devastating the American psyche with?

excellent point here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur /its-impossible-to-be-prou_b_96782.html


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:06:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 4)

I'm proud of her campaign.  She is the only Democrat running for whom an ad like that would not be defeating.  You get that?  That scare card can NOT be run against her.  It can and will be run against Obama.

Now, Obama's campaign against our last 2 term Democratic President...for shame.

Barry would have to do some mighty groveling to get my vote.


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:10:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

It's not that she is not afraid of the consequences that she ran that ad, it's because she is in desperate mode and needs to find something that resonates with the remaining voters or SD's....Inserting fear into the American people, like it or not, is a GOP tactic...However, I understand why she is doing it.


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

The only fear propoganda we should be pushing is the fear that our children and future children will inherit the trajedy we call the Bush Administration in terms of global instability, crashing economies, rising debt, etc etc.

Thats what we need to be afraid of, not what the republicans have done for generations.

True democrats saw that bullsh!t 3am add, vomited and then realized the only Democrat who "approved of this message" was Lieberman.

Whats sad about the HRC lunatics is there are some who still worship Lieberman, one of the most evil politicians since Nixon.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 04:30:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

Proud?  You bet!


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:36:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

you are proud to smear a popular 2 term Democratic president?

when was the last time we had a 2 term democratic president?


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

Um, huh?  When did Hillary smear her husband?


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:31:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

are you referring to Obama's campaign or Hillary's?  It is hard to keep track based on your sig


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:53:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

I am supporting Clinton, I thought we all were wearing our matching shirts by now so ya know who's who around here...


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:55:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

lol - your sig threw me off.  I've seen similar ones that Obama supporters have and they MEAN it.


by colebiancardi on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 05:52:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

I had the utmost respect for BC (a Democratic 2 time term POTUS) but during this election he chose to display some questionable, at best, comments toward BO.  I still have respect for him, just not as much as I did before.


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 2)

No matter how many times you spam the same link, I'll still be very proud of Hillary Clinton and very proud of the way she has run her campaign.


by bobbank on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

This Bob "loves joe lieberman" bancroft.

This from me to you:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur /the-difference-between-to_b_97595.html

It's funny how almost ALL the architects of the Bill Clinton years have all walked to aisle.

Stephanopoulous
Carville
Dick Morris
Lanny Davis

wow, real proud.

Bob, did you cry with pride when you first saw the 3 am ad?  


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 04:34:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (1.75 / 12)

it needs to be said, the ad is dead on. Obama is not the messiah.


by zane on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:02:59 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (1.16 / 6)

no one has ever fucking calling him the messiah except stupid hillary supporters.


by bawbie on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 2)

There's no need for this language. And if you can't understand satire and the dig at Obama as the messiah, then you probably shouldn't be commenting on it. But, free speech and all that, just realize that you're getting riled up over nothing.

http://www.slate.com/id/2158578/


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 3)

I'm riled up because this happens constantly here.  Obama supporters are constantly demeaned by being called "cultists" who "drink the koolaid" for "our messiah".

If you don't think that is intended to be demeaning and belittle us, fine, so be it.  But I do.

It would be nice if we, as a party, could have a decent, inspiring politician without people yelling "MESSIAH" at the top of their lungs.  


by bawbie on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

Well I rarely if ever mention messiah, but I hope you understand that Clinton supporters are just as upset when we're called 'hopeless', 'crazy', 'supportive of that b---- Clinton', etc.

So it runs both ways. I don't think messiah is meant to belittle Obama supporters more as poke fun at Obama's general message. There's nothing wrong with that and it's part of modern political sature.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:14:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 2)

uprated/not deserving of a TR


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:21:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 1)

No, but it definitely deserves something. All the people in this thread defending this garbage make me sick to my stomach.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:31:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

I know, but a strongly worded response is usually better than a TR. Having seen some of the truly odious comments around here, saying that Obama is not the messiah doesn't even make me blink at this point.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 0)

I don't understand why that Truman quote is in there. It doesn't really fit at all. The "get out of the kitchen" line is normally directed at someone complaining about the pressure in some context. However, Obama's not complaining about the pressures of the presidency; that would be political suicide.

In any case, I think it's a weak (and depressing) ad. Too disorganized.


by DPW on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:04:12 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 0)

You put your finger on it; I was wondering why I didn't have that "that's a good ad" feeling that I usually get from her stuff.  It's too disjointed.  

I don't think there's anything wrong with it though.


by Mostly on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 0)

It is disorganized because it is out of desperation.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:32:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 0)

The Obama campaign's response was perfect.

"Vote Your Hopes, Not Your Fears" - Clinton/Gore '92


by jdusek on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:06:18 PM EST

No big deal (2.00 / 0)

I think it's pretty lame and over the top. Not slick like the 3AM ad which while negative was really well done. I can hear the late night comedians now. Tough enough to take that incoming sniper fire. I think the ad totally overplays the message and makes her look ridiculous.


by hankg on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:08:51 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 3)

Oh my god, give me a break. More hysteria and manufactured controversy. This is not playing the 'terrorist card' at all. It's simply a LOT of scenes of major events over the last sixty years since WWII. Yes, Osama Bin Laden has been a major event. We can't talk about terrorism now?! Give me a break.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:11:41 PM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 0)

It is playing the TERROR card. Different. And I can think of at least 5 domestic terror acts that occurred under Clinton's watch, too. Where was that coolness under fire with Elian Gonzales? Or Waco?


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:33:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

What exactly is the terror card? Ok, that's great that you have memory of Clinton's presidency as well.

And what 'coolness under fire' are you referring to? Last I checked, Hillary was not president during that time.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 01:17:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

Terror does not mean violence, it means fear. And she is playing directly to fear in this ad. Maybe it makes sense from a policy perspective to people who already think Obama is incompetent, but not to anyone else.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:33:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

I don't think Obama is incompetent and I think this ad raises a very good point. In fact, I'll let this speak for me since it lays out what I'm thinking better than I can right now:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/21/1651 47/691

I love how it's not PC to run ads with images of major events in throughout history. Next thing you know, only puppies, lollipops, and pretty colors will be the only things allowed in ads. Give me a break!


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:40:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

It doesn't raise any issues, it just uses disastrous imagery to play off people's emotions. THAT is not only fear-based manipulation, it is a character attack.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:45:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

What are you talking about? If that offends you because you think it's a dig at Obama, then that says more about what you think about Obama's ability to deal with these issues than it does about Hillary.

If someone is not allowed to put out an ad, with major events from the last half century, and then asking them to vote for Clinton because she is 'tough and tested' which has been her strategy forever, then that's called censorship. I'm glad she put out this ad, since it obviously touched a nerve with a lot of Obama supporters, and this says more about them than it does about Hillary.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:52:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

If she'd never made the statement that Obama does not have experience to lead or that McCain would be more experienced, then maybe we wouldn't take it as a direct attack... in a primary state two days before the election.

But sadly, she already did, and it absolutely KILLED her to say otherwise in that debate. Sucks to not be able to say "Hell, NO, he couldn't win!" because you know it would be suicide, doesn't it?


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 11:58:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (none / 0)

Now you're confusing two issues. She said he can be elected. She was never asked whether he has the experience necessary to become president. I'd argue she'd give a different answer.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 12:00:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 0)

Eh, I don't think it's that effective.  Though, it does make me wonder what a Clinton Administration would do about Iran.


by rfahey22 on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:12:02 PM EST

It's all she's got left. (2.00 / 1)

She molded herself in this image a long time ago when she voted for the war to make herself look tough. It's what those around her thought needed to be done, to counter any femininity argument with the argument that she was the toughest hawk on the block. Someone in her campaign is saying, "These are the cards we dealt ourselves."

It's sad that the difference between Republican tactics and Clinton tactics have gotten so slight. I honestly think that if she just had the courage of her own convictions and wasn't contorting herself into anything she thinks or is told she needs to become to get elected, then she'd be doing much better.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:12:11 PM EST

/scratches cheek with smug grin (2.00 / 1)


by JimR on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:18:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: /scratches cheek with smug grin (2.00 / 0)

And he pulled a Scalia too!!


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 12:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton May Have Just Lost (2.00 / 5)

This is so pathetic...your fake outrage.  The whole "How dare she meme..." is quite overdone.
Obama and friends have called the Clintons racists, warmongers, liars and any and every negat